Author Topic: Perf+: The Perfboard Reinvented kickstarter launch (Read 10031 times)

kindiana · « **on:** April 04, 2015, 10:04:39 am »

Perf+ is a new type of prototyping board which allows any two pads in a grid to be connected together via a two dimensional framework of copper. It allows connections only using a dab of solder instead of a massive blob and is easy to work.

Read more:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/658903329/perf-the-perfboard-reinvented

Previous EEVblog discussion
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/perf/

EEVblog · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2015, 10:11:21 am »

The shallow depth of field on that photo burns my eyes - ARGH!

kindiana · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2015, 10:13:14 am »

Quote from: EEVblog on April 04, 2015, 10:11:21 am

The shallow depth of field on that photo burns my eyes - ARGH!

Was going for a out of focus shot, might have gone a bit too far

There is also one of these sitting in your mailbag pile

EEVblog · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2015, 10:15:37 am »

Quote from: EEVblog on April 04, 2015, 10:11:21 am

The shallow depth of field on that photo burns my eyes - ARGH!

If there is one thing I've learned it's that tech people generally want a large depth of field on angled PCB's and product shots, they want as much detail as possible.

kindiana · « **Reply #4 on:** April 04, 2015, 10:17:22 am »

Quote from: EEVblog on April 04, 2015, 10:15:37 am

Quote from: EEVblog on April 04, 2015, 10:11:21 am
The shallow depth of field on that photo burns my eyes - ARGH!

If there is one thing I've learned it's that tech people generally want a large depth of field on angled PCB's and product shots, they want as much detail as possible.

There are some scans of the PCBs further down the page

EEVblog · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2015, 10:19:50 am »

I can't help but thing the busses could have used a tappered necked-down bit between each pad to make cutting easier. A fat solid bus is harder to cut, and you can't use a veroboard rotating trace cutter.
In fact you could include a trace cutter option in there was a small hole at each of the neck-downs.

kindiana · « **Reply #6 on:** April 04, 2015, 10:45:46 am »

Quote from: EEVblog on April 04, 2015, 10:19:50 am

I can't help but thing the busses could have used a tappered necked-down bit between each pad to make cutting easier. A fat solid bus is harder to cut, and you can't use a veroboard rotating trace cutter.
In fact you could include a trace cutter option in there was a small hole at each of the neck-downs.

Interesting idea, I was wondering on the tradeoff between current carrying and easy of cutting. Is 10 mils a reasonable midpoint?

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #7 on:** April 04, 2015, 10:49:14 am »

Quote from: EEVblog on April 04, 2015, 10:19:50 am

I can't help but thing the busses could have used a tappered necked-down bit between each pad to make cutting easier. A fat solid bus is harder to cut, and you can't use a veroboard rotating trace cutter.
In fact you could include a trace cutter option in there was a small hole at each of the neck-downs.

+1000
Have a small hole in the copper (not through the board) , just big enough to use as a centre-mark. You probably want something a bit smaller than a vero spot cutter - a small twist drill works fine.
The neck will also help with forming solder blobs - solder will be less prone to running along the track

I think the pads are a bit too small - looks like they are smaller than the min annular ring spec for many PCB suppliers. They could be wider - obviously the pad shape on each layer would be rotated 90 deg.

This would also make it easier to solder-blob between adjacent pads without needing to use the bus rails.

I'm not sure I'd even bother with resist - with the right pad & gap sizes it's probably not going to help much.

I also think you should have a symmetrical gap each side, rather than offset, so you can link a trace to the bus either side.

TBH I wouldn't bother with the LED blinker stuff - it's just a distraction from the core product.

Why 1.2mm thick rather than the more standard 1.6?

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2015, 10:50:41 am »

Quote from: kindiana on April 04, 2015, 10:45:46 am

Quote from: EEVblog on April 04, 2015, 10:19:50 am
I can't help but thing the busses could have used a tappered necked-down bit between each pad to make cutting easier. A fat solid bus is harder to cut, and you can't use a veroboard rotating trace cutter.
In fact you could include a trace cutter option in there was a small hole at each of the neck-downs.
Interesting idea, I was wondering on the tradeoff between current carrying and easy of cutting. Is 10 mils a reasonable midpoint?

Current carrying isn't an issue - you can always us wire for anything heavy.
10 mils maybe a little thin for soldering without risk of lifting the track

EEVblog · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2015, 11:01:45 am »

Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 04, 2015, 10:49:14 am

Have a small hole in the copper (not through the board) , just big enough to use as a centre-mark. You probably want something a bit smaller than a vero spot cutter - a small twist drill works fine.

Yes, would have to be smaller. Maybe a small drill bit with a big fat shank for grip, the kind they use on PCB spindles.

EEVblog · « **Reply #10 on:** April 04, 2015, 11:04:26 am »

Quote from: kindiana on April 04, 2015, 10:45:46 am

Interesting idea, I was wondering on the tradeoff between current carrying and easy of cutting. Is 10 mils a reasonable midpoint?

Current capacity isn't a major issue. If people need high current they can solder a wire on the track. 99% of uses will be small/medium current stuff.
10 mil is a bit small, maybe 20? It just needs to neck down at least say half the current track width.

BradC · « **Reply #11 on:** April 04, 2015, 11:08:46 am »

It's not ideal, but I've just backed it. Always like trying new proto boards.
Having said that I really don't need another 5 555's, but more boards is always good

kindiana · « **Reply #12 on:** April 04, 2015, 11:13:21 am »

Quote from: EEVblog on April 04, 2015, 10:19:50 am

I can't help but thing the busses could have used a tappered necked-down bit between each pad to make cutting easier. A fat solid bus is harder to cut, and you can't use a veroboard rotating trace cutter.
In fact you could include a trace cutter option in there was a small hole at each of the neck-downs.

Sorta like this?

kindiana · « **Reply #13 on:** April 04, 2015, 11:13:50 am »

Quote from: BradC on April 04, 2015, 11:08:46 am

It's not ideal, but I've just backed it. Always like trying new proto boards.
Having said that I really don't need another 5 555's, but more boards is always good

Thanks!

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #14 on:** April 04, 2015, 11:38:05 am »

Quote from: kindiana on April 04, 2015, 11:13:21 am

Quote from: EEVblog on April 04, 2015, 10:19:50 am
I can't help but thing the busses could have used a tappered necked-down bit between each pad to make cutting easier. A fat solid bus is harder to cut, and you can't use a veroboard rotating trace cutter.
In fact you could include a trace cutter option in there was a small hole at each of the neck-downs.
Sorta like this?

Yes, but maybe a wider neck, so when an adjacent pad is soldered, the solder blob doesn't get in the way of cutting the track

albert22 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 04, 2015, 01:54:23 pm »

Quote

The boards will be sent in padded envelopes via China Post small packet. This is the most cost efficient way of distributing them. However, it is possible for some packets to arrive to its destination. If there is a lost or damaged packet, I will be happy to resend them.

}

some packets??

Refrigerator · « **Reply #16 on:** April 04, 2015, 02:34:19 pm »

Quote from: albert22 on April 04, 2015, 01:54:23 pm

Quote
The boards will be sent in padded envelopes via China Post small packet. This is the most cost efficient way of distributing them. However, it is possible for some packets to arrive to its destination. If there is a lost or damaged packet, I will be happy to resend them.
}

some packets??

I'd guess he meant that some packets may get lost during shipping.

kwass · « **Reply #17 on:** April 04, 2015, 02:39:56 pm »

Quote from: kindiana on April 04, 2015, 11:13:21 am

Sorta like this?

I like this idea very much, I hope it makes it into your design. I've just backed you.

kindiana · « **Reply #18 on:** April 04, 2015, 08:24:40 pm »

Quote from: albert22 on April 04, 2015, 01:54:23 pm

Quote
The boards will be sent in padded envelopes via China Post small packet. This is the most cost efficient way of distributing them. However, it is possible for some packets to arrive to its destination. If there is a lost or damaged packet, I will be happy to resend them.
}

some packets??

God dammit

fixed now

kindiana · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2015, 09:28:26 am »

Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 04, 2015, 10:49:14 am

Quote from: EEVblog on April 04, 2015, 10:19:50 am
I can't help but thing the busses could have used a tappered necked-down bit between each pad to make cutting easier. A fat solid bus is harder to cut, and you can't use a veroboard rotating trace cutter.
In fact you could include a trace cutter option in there was a small hole at each of the neck-downs.
+1000
Have a small hole in the copper (not through the board) , just big enough to use as a centre-mark. You probably want something a bit smaller than a vero spot cutter - a small twist drill works fine.
The neck will also help with forming solder blobs - solder will be less prone to running along the track

I think the pads are a bit too small - looks like they are smaller than the min annular ring spec for many PCB suppliers. They could be wider - obviously the pad shape on each layer would be rotated 90 deg.

This would also make it easier to solder-blob between adjacent pads without needing to use the bus rails.

I'm not sure I'd even bother with resist - with the right pad & gap sizes it's probably not going to help much.

I also think you should have a symmetrical gap each side, rather than offset, so you can link a trace to the bus either side.

TBH I wouldn't bother with the LED blinker stuff - it's just a distraction from the core product.

Why 1.2mm thick rather than the more standard 1.6?

I have implemented your suggestion combined with dave's. What do you think of this shape?

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2015, 11:41:14 am »

Yes - something like that, but I think the pad-to-pad gap is too wide - it would be good to link adjacent pads without using the rails. A simple rectangular pad would allow this, as well as linking to the rail either side - I think only being able to connect to a rail on on side will be too limiting.

pretenda · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2015, 01:05:06 pm »

Looks neat. I am low on perfboard, so i pledged .. looking forward to seeing how it goes. Will you have a store to buy them from in future? Or will you provide the gerbers so we can get some made ourselves? (happy either way!)

kindiana · « **Reply #22 on:** April 05, 2015, 09:16:37 pm »

Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 05, 2015, 11:41:14 am

Yes - something like that, but I think the pad-to-pad gap is too wide - it would be good to link adjacent pads without using the rails. A simple rectangular pad would allow this, as well as linking to the rail either side - I think only being able to connect to a rail on on side will be too limiting.

I am reluctant to add pads in more than one direction because it is difficult to control the direction of solder flow.

kindiana · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2015, 09:18:15 pm »

Quote from: pretenda on April 05, 2015, 01:05:06 pm

Looks neat. I am low on perfboard, so i pledged .. looking forward to seeing how it goes. Will you have a store to buy them from in future? Or will you provide the gerbers so we can get some made ourselves? (happy either way!)

Currently unsure of what to do after the kickstarter but I will probably setup a online store seeing the high demand.

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2015, 10:02:07 pm »

Quote from: kindiana on April 05, 2015, 09:16:37 pm

Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on April 05, 2015, 11:41:14 am
Yes - something like that, but I think the pad-to-pad gap is too wide - it would be good to link adjacent pads without using the rails. A simple rectangular pad would allow this, as well as linking to the rail either side - I think only being able to connect to a rail on on side will be too limiting.
I am reluctant to add pads in more than one direction because it is difficult to control the direction of solder flow.

If you get the gap right it's not a problem - remember solder has high surface tension, so needs to be actively dragged over a gap.


EEVblog Main Site	EEVblog on Youtube	EEVblog on Twitter	EEVblog on Facebook	EEVblog on Odysee

Author Topic: Perf+: The Perfboard Reinvented **kickstarter launch** (Read 10031 times)

Share me

Author Topic: Perf+: The Perfboard Reinvented kickstarter launch (Read 10031 times)